Tone Pot Tapers
This is a quick video comparing linear and audio/log tapers for a tone control. I’m comparing a Bourns 500k audio taper pot (PDB241-GTR01-504A2) with a Philmore PC27 500k linear taper pot. The capacitor is a .022uF Orange Drop (225P100V 223K). I’ve wired the neck pickup directly to the jack with the tone pot in parallel, just like a normal guitar circuit, but with no volume pot.
It’s pretty clear to me that the audio/log taper pot results in a smoother transition in brightness through the entire range of the pot.
The linear pot seems to reach full brightness in the first quarter turn of the pot, and then doesn’t change much for the rest of the pot range.
Venancio Portalatin
November 13, 2009 @ 7:31 pm
Very Cool demo of the two Pots. I would choose the Audio taper pots as
well. Much more control and I would think more tone options.
Duane K. Siebert
November 13, 2009 @ 8:28 pm
Hey, John.
Liked the video and sent it to a buddy of mine who is into all things guitar-related (favorite guitar of his for me is a hollow-body Telecaster with f-holes on it from the 60’s…)
A quick question (and I apologize for it not being on topic)…
What camera do you use for these videos as the image quality is great.
I am looking to add live streaming video to our web site for technical support purposes and am currently playing with the new Microsoft Lifecam Cinema HD (I left it up and running streaming through the VidBlaster switcher, to FME then up the data half of our T1 to OnStreamMedia.com):
http://www.TonerRefillKits.com/video.php
(That image is of a customer LANC controller for Sony/Canon camcorders with the ctrl-L port)
Thanks,
Duane
John
November 13, 2009 @ 9:17 pm
Hey Duane,
I like those hollow-body telecasters too. Nice guitars!
I’ve been experimenting with cameras. If you watch some of my other video posts, you can see a progression in quality from total crap (MS Lifecam VX-5000), to better (Logitech Pro-9000), to a little bit better (Microsoft Cinema HD, same as yours), and finally I’m now experimenting with a Canon HF-200 flash camcorder (awesome). (I put the camera I used in the keywords of the youtube video, so you can tell which ones are which).
The webcams all have issues, but are acceptable for general use. The mics all have problems. The video clarity suffers especially at the edges of the frame, etc. The Canon camcorder is a joy to work with, but it’s 10x the price of the webcams.
Maybe I’ll do a blog post to describe my experiences with these. Of the webcams, the new MS Cinema HD looks the best, but if you have to use its mic, you’ll hear it has an annoying high pitched whine. Also it tends to zip in and out of focus a lot, forcing me to switch to all manual WB, focus and exposure when recording. The logitech Pro-9000’s mic was excessively sensitive and sounded horrible when clipping.
Your live MS Cinema HD video there of the controller chip looks great. I’d say for your purposes, it’s probably the best of the bunch – maybe also take a look at the pro-9000.
Hope this helps,
-John
Duane K. Siebert
November 14, 2009 @ 7:35 am
Thanks for the quick and detailed reply, John.
A quick question on the HF200 (it really does look great).
Can you use it as a streaming web cam (either via firewire or USB)?
For our technical support videos on YouTube we use the Canon XH-A1, but the thought of using a $4000 camera (suspended in mid-air via an upside down P.O.V. tripod) for this purpose is not appealing (if we totally destroy the Lifecam somehow, life goes on… if we accidentally toast the XH A1 by leaving it on 24/7, I’m not going to be a happy camper).
Plus, it appears that the PC accepting true uncompressed HD input from the XH A1 (I think it is uncompressed, even if it is, the data stream is enormous) really taxes the CPU of the PC we are doing the video switching on.
The VidBlaster.com switching software has a CPU monitor and two or three of the HD Lifecams doesn’t push CPU usage over 40%.
Even if the XH A1 isn’t taken live and only the output from it is monitored in one of the camera windows, CPU usage is up over 85% and higher.
Since the PC is being called upon to do the camera switching, Flash Media Encoding and the streaming, that excessive CPU load then makes for other problems (dropped frames, etc.).
My thought is, since the HF200 has such great video quality, if it had a built-in facility to use it as a streaming camera, it might be the perfect mid-point.
(Nuts… I just checked the specs on it and it doesn’t have a LANC/ctrl-l remote port on it. That Ctrl-L port that Sony and Canon came up with allows for a wired remoted that can do all sorts of extra stuff like manual focusing, manual toggling of auto/manual exposure, remote access of the menus so you can sit in your comfy chair and watch the on-screen preview output and change white balance, auto-exposure, etc.)
So as not to bore you further with this, I’ll thank you, again, for the quick and detailed reply.
Duane
John
November 14, 2009 @ 10:50 am
Unfortunately, the HF-200 doesn’t have the ability to live-stream over usb. I record to flash, then transfer the files over usb to the PC for editing in Sony Vegas.
That XH-A1 is a thing of beauty! I guess the LANC/Control-L remote is reserved for the pro cams. The HF-200 has a wireless remote which can zoom, start/stop, and use menus – but it’s pretty simple.
-John
SilverSkyline92
November 14, 2009 @ 6:29 pm
im gonna go with audio pots for tone in my strat build, and this answers my
question regarding tone pots, cause some people on this forum were like
“use linear for tone because your ears hear in log for volume only, not for
tone/frequency, differentiation…” but i was thinking, isnt the tone pot
controlling the volume of the high frequencies, not actually changing
frequencies, at least thats what i thought, well, thanks for the good demo
man
andrewaskins1
November 17, 2009 @ 10:51 pm
verry good u rock!
AllOnBlack86
November 19, 2009 @ 11:18 am
These videos are really helpful, thanks John
Ross Mc
November 23, 2009 @ 10:03 pm
i feel smarter after watching that ha ha
zutstrikeback
November 28, 2009 @ 11:45 am
Ohh….. Ok thank you! this was very helpful. As are all the video’s I’ve
been watching. Again thanks for all the help!
Macaius MusicMaker
December 25, 2009 @ 12:29 pm
Hi! I have a C-1 Fr Schecter guitar with active Duncan designed humbuckers.
I would like to split them to a single coils. What are the best pots to do
that? my preferences are to fade in slowly like the logaritmics. Thank you
Richard Webner
January 6, 2010 @ 1:32 pm
I found your result very interesting becuase I always though the opposite
was true. On paper it seems to make sense – linear pots have a linear slope
which should result in a more consistent sweep over the range of the pot.
On a graph of a linear pot, 1 is 10 percent, 3 is 30 percent, 7 is 70 etc.
– can you shed light on this? Thanks!
John Cooper
January 8, 2010 @ 11:10 am
Human perception of loudness is also logarithmic, but it’s a bit more
complicated. The ear has an enormous dynamic range (from very quiet to very
loud), and loudness is perceived differently at different pitches.
Generally, using audio taper for a volume pot is the best match for how
your ear perceives loudness.
Richard Webner
January 11, 2010 @ 7:44 am
Thanks John, your explanation is very helpful plus the results don’t lie.
I’m going to use audio taper for volume and tone in my next project. Thanks
again!
fretboarder
January 21, 2010 @ 7:24 am
hi, do yuo know much about the tone caps? i got some 50’s bumblebee caps
from ebay to put in my 58 vos..do you know if they are easy to install and
what things to look out for? cheers..
fretboarder
January 21, 2010 @ 10:31 am
thanks for the pointers mate il be sure to check out your other videos
showing your use of the clips,,that should be an intersting video with the
tone caps, many people remark how their tone got more creamy and mellow
after upgrading the caps this will be the first time ive ever modded a
guitar..cheers for the reply:)
100roberthenry
June 24, 2010 @ 7:37 am
did you ever put your guitar back together man…lol….great vids
Count Fuckula
November 13, 2010 @ 3:43 pm
he look like that one guy from mad tv.
eXkillswitch11
November 24, 2010 @ 9:03 am
ya it isnt just the pot… it is control x piezo one so it costs more, it had a bunch of stuff sodered to it but anywy i fixed it
tbmintz
February 1, 2011 @ 8:04 am
Now I’m confused, In your “how pots work” video you said the Linear pot was consistant in the resistence and the audio taper had the big jump at the end. I need to replace a pot and need to clarify this. I want a smoot transistion. The pot I’m replacing seems to go heavy bass tone to high treble in one spot and no change before or after, also its a push pull pot and red and white wires from pups go to 2 diff. lugs on bottom of pot what do i do with them when i put in a normal pot? great vids btw
Difficult Decisions - Planet Z
February 3, 2011 @ 6:19 pm
[…] loudness is extremely dependent on the particular ear and brain of the listener. When I suggested that audio-taper works well for both volume and tone controls, I got some very bizarre responses […]
voodookiss1976
March 6, 2011 @ 1:31 am
how about a Dimarzio 500Kohm custom taper pot?
sclogse1
March 19, 2011 @ 2:07 pm
What I’ve been interested in is, with my archtops, is being able to cut the treble frequency, and not have the volume change. You can hear your treble volume increase when you rotate your pot..and you are always rotating to open, and not close in this video. It’s even more apparent going the other way, (closing down how not only treble frequency is affected, but volume. So, that’s what I’m looking for…controlling frequency and maintaining sound volume.
sclogse1
March 19, 2011 @ 2:12 pm
I’ve had brand new pots put in a custom guitar, by my guy at guitar center in san francisco, and they simply are junk compared to pots 40 years old. The tone looses it’s range quickly, jumps frequencies, and also the volume pot and tone pot get dirty really fast. I have a 52 les paul that has never had either problem with original volume and tone pots. Never scratchy, and great tone range. Go figure.
John
March 23, 2011 @ 10:09 am
@sclogse1 – interesting. i think you need to go see that guy at GC and let him know the results sucked. maybe he put in some used pots. maybe he burned them with too much heat? i dunno, but what you’re describing is not the general case for new pots. as for the tone losing its range quickly or jumping frequencies, you need to experiment with different tapers and tone caps to find what works for you.
John
March 23, 2011 @ 10:11 am
@sclogse1 – yeah it’s a tricky thing. human perception of loudness is very subjective, and very frequency dependent. you’re gonna need to find a combination of parts that works for your ears.
Mike
March 26, 2011 @ 1:11 pm
I have two fender strats that were SSS and sounded so much alike, that I never played one. I decided to change the pups, and bought a book on how to do setups yourself, and I got brave enough to give it a try. Right now my 2006 MIM strat sounds so fantastic I really love it….and I hooked it up wrong and its not in phase. I have not opened up to change the black and green wires yet, as I just ordered a 500K Blend pot, and it will come in on April 1st or 2nd.
Before then, I have a lot of wiring diagrams to study and I admit I am confused because of what I want to do. I thought I could just take one of my tone pots and make that a blend pot, but when I found out I could not, I ordered one.
I bought a model 59 SD and that has only a hot wire and a braided ground wire. It is my Bridge Pup. The original Tex Mex is in the middle position, and a 4 wire SD Hotrail is my neck pup.
I bought a 500 K push pull so that I could split the neck pup for the push pull to have two tones. I bought a SD liberator so that I
can change the pups around in the future and not have to re-soldier anything.
I switched two wires, and now I dont know if it was the 3 or 4 wire, but my number 3 position on my 5 pos fender switch gives me
neck and bridge at same time, instead of just the middle pup. I like that alot…as it sounds really nice.
Ive gone on the SD website and they have tons of options for wiring, but im not seeing what I want to do, so Im just going nuts, and know better then to take my strings off the guitar and not be ready to put everything the way I want. Im not going to let it sit for days with no pressure from strings, and mess up the neck.
So blend the neck and bridge
Split the 4 wire humbucker with the 500k Dimarzio pot (just noticed it said it could be a taper too)
Switch the green and black so the two hums are in phase with fender middle pup.
maintain middle 3 pos on 5 way sw so that neck and bridge are same time.
If you could point me in the right direction to what diagrams I would need, I would appreciate it very very much.
Mike Kelly Sr
John
March 31, 2011 @ 7:27 pm
I’m not totally clear on your setup. But I generally find that it really helps to look at the diagrams here:
http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiringresources/
Even if you can’t find exactly what you need, you’re bound to get some good ideas there.
The other thing I recommend (as I describe in my FAQ) is to get some alligator clip leads, and experiment with your circuit using those before you solder anything. That way, you can be sure you understand your circuit, and that it all works, before you commit with solder.
Good luck!
-John
Mike
March 31, 2011 @ 7:38 pm
http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/wires003.jpg
What you suggested is exactly what I have done. I will use a multimeter to test using ohms and continuity and
be able to figure this thing out. I bet a Luther at Guitar Center would charge me a hundred bucks for this.
John
March 31, 2011 @ 7:48 pm
Congratulations! Feels good to work through a project like this. Seems impossible at first, but you learn a lot along the way. And at the end, when you’ve nailed it, you can feel proud to have learned a new skill, and saved some money as well 🙂
-John
Mike
March 31, 2011 @ 7:59 pm
Oh Darn John, I sent the wrong picture…..That was the wifes spaghetti dinner I had tonight and I thought it looked so good
I took a picture of it and got it mixed up with the guitar stuff.
LOL…….It does feel very good to not just save money and feel like Ive accomplished something…..it feel better to have gotten past my fear of taking a strat apart and learning how to do the work
for setups and other things without having to run to GC every two minutes, like I did at first. The internet and wonderful, helpful
people like you make this hobby a interesting and fun thing to do !!!
John
March 31, 2011 @ 8:04 pm
🙂
Tamotsu101
April 2, 2011 @ 5:57 am
Awesome demo. You just helped me pick out pots for my new wiring setup.
Nyquilcoma
May 1, 2011 @ 6:33 am
Hi John, Thanks for your videos, they are very informative for a novice like me. I have a 2003 LP Special Faded and I’d like to replace the cheap Chinese pots, caps and wiring with CTS upgrades and cloth covered wire. Do you know of any videos that show this process start to finish, and do you have any suggestions as to specs for Parts? Thanks again, Olen.
John
May 2, 2011 @ 10:34 pm
@Nyquilcoma – You can see my video series “Wiring Up Guitar Electronics”, parts 1-5. These basically show the whole process of replacing the electronics. See the other videos in my channel for how to evaluate and choose the potentiometers and capacitors. Good luck!
96Guitarshredder96
July 2, 2011 @ 7:12 am
what the differnt between logarithmic taper and non-linear?
John
July 31, 2011 @ 2:27 pm
@96Guitarshredder96 – log specifies a specific exponential x^2 taper. i guess “non-linear” just means anything other than linear, which could be log, or s-curve or some other taper
vikenemesh
January 8, 2012 @ 3:02 am
@johnplanetz You’re wrong on that, log refers to a logarithmic curve, and logarithmic is the exact (really) opposite of exponential, so about every logarithmic curve is very steep at the beginning and then the curve get’s flatter.
vikenemesh
January 8, 2012 @ 3:06 am
But if you were to reverse connect the pot, it would go slow at the beginning and rise fast at the end. But still not exponential, just mirrored log.
John
January 10, 2012 @ 9:43 am
@vikenemesh – you’re right that log is inverse of exponential. The audio taper is a typical n^2 exponential curve, but everyone in the potentiometer and guitar world refers to audio-taper pots as log curves. And the (rare and unusual) pots which have a natural (fast rise) log curve taper are called anti-log or reverse-log. Go figure.
vikenemesh
January 10, 2012 @ 11:37 pm
@johnplanetz n^2 is quadratic or parabolic, whereas 2^n would be exponential, but in practical usage n^2 approximates 2^n close enough. But as long as it sound anywhere near to logarithmic I’m fine.
reikofact
July 29, 2011 @ 1:20 am
logarithmic for volume and linear for tone?
John
July 31, 2011 @ 2:29 pm
@reikofact – it’s most common to use log taper for both volume and tone. but it’s up to you, and how you use your tone knob. try both and see which one you like better!
reikofact
August 1, 2011 @ 11:03 am
@johnplanetz – ohhh after watching the video twice I realized you picked both for log potentiometers.
Thanks for the advice and for your very useful videos 😀
wedel219
September 29, 2011 @ 1:03 pm
Where did you get your clip leads for the multimeter? Not the ones with alligator clips on each end, but the ones that plug into the meter and have clip ends instead of needles. I have just the needle leads, which are useless for determining the pot’s taper. Searching the web for such an ambiguous word as “lead” + “clip” or “alligator clip” doesn’t net me any terribly helpful results. Thanks.
John
September 29, 2011 @ 5:56 pm
@wedel219 – i don’t have clip leads for my multimeter. I just use the regular probe “needle” leads. If I need to clip the probe to something, then I’ll juts use regulator alligator lead (a wire with alligators clips on both ends), and clip one end to the probe needle. Works fine.
wedel219
September 29, 2011 @ 7:31 pm
@johnplanetz — I deduced that solution after posing my question. Worked like a charm! Thanks for the reply.
GallaghersEyebrows
December 28, 2011 @ 11:19 am
Dude, love your videos. Always to the point and very informative. Thanks!
hamulec94
December 30, 2011 @ 4:03 am
log wins 😛
muaythai4lifelife
January 23, 2012 @ 4:45 am
Hi John! Why some CTS pots have the bottom -flat- and others have the center with that kind of circled hole?
I noticed that difference in both 250,500,A,B pots.
John
January 23, 2012 @ 12:03 pm
@muaythai4lifelife – as I understand it, there is slightly less torque in the pots with the channel in the bottom, due to less contact surface area on the underside of the pot. See my planetz blog post “New CTS Guitar Pots” on January 22, 2010.
muaythai4lifelife
January 23, 2012 @ 12:22 pm
@johnplanetz thanx John, i run to watch it!
muaythai4lifelife
January 23, 2012 @ 12:33 pm
@johnplanetz just read! 😉 i took a look at the datasheet too. i was wondering… how can i order a 25K ohm reverse log? i never found any on the net…
only 250 or 500k Ohm
John
January 23, 2012 @ 12:40 pm
@muaythai4lifelife – i’m not sure CTS makes them, but you can find Alpha 16mm reverse audio taper pots at mouser
muaythai4lifelife
January 23, 2012 @ 12:41 pm
@johnplanetz thanx angain! 😉
danhennessymusic
March 18, 2012 @ 9:47 pm
hi john great videos mate!
I’m working on installing a humbucker and piezo (connected via 3 way toggle) in my accoustic. Any thoughts on how i can match the signals ‘loudness’ im guessing i’ll need to add a resistor to the humbucker/s but I thought you or someone else may know the best way to blend and match passive and active signals…
its open to the crowd ;P
John
March 25, 2012 @ 10:33 pm
@danhennessymusic – if you’re planning an on-board preamp for the piezo, there will be opportunities in there for adding boost/gain to match the levels of the humbucker. (Presumably your humbucker would then be mixed in with the piezo at the preamp?) I don’t have experience doing that, but I’m sure it’s possible!
Sevenstringmachine
April 1, 2012 @ 2:26 pm
What company did you get the audio log taper pot from used in this video? thanks, I love your videos
John
April 8, 2012 @ 8:40 pm
That’s a Bourns A500k pot, part # PDB241-GTR01. Purchased at Mouser
SwoobGuitar
May 12, 2012 @ 5:14 am
Thanks! I thought I bought the wrong pots for the tone control, but it’s no problem.
RkicF8
June 20, 2012 @ 5:40 pm
They say a 500k has more treble than a 300k. But could you turn the 500k down to 3/5 position and match the 300k sound exactly? If the answer is loss of volume thats easy to correct by setting up two channels. If so I’m going to switch out to 500k. I have way to much bass or muddyness. Great videos.
John
June 24, 2012 @ 9:19 pm
It depends on how it’s wired. If you’re wired for independent volumes (pickup wired to center lug, output on side lug), then turning down a 500k volume to 3/5 will sound darker, the same as a 300k pot. But if you’re wired for non-independent volume (typical gibson two pickup wiring – pickup wired to side lug, output on center lug), then the 500k pot will sound brighter than the 300k pot, even when turned down to 3/5.
TheLonesometoad
August 27, 2012 @ 7:19 am
Any idea where I can buy a 500k or a 1 meg audio taper NO LOAD pot with a long shaft? I can’t find one to save my ass.
John
August 30, 2012 @ 3:10 pm
It’s possible that it’s simply not available. I’d just try the usual places- guitarpartsresource, guitarelectronics, allparts, stewmac, etc
Crimadella Man
January 15, 2013 @ 4:40 am
I’ve beel trying to learn alot about this….to customize my guitar. From what i’ve read, dosen’t really matter the type of varrible resistors you use, but how you have them wired and there resistance compaired to the pickup its controling.
I plan to get me a Kinman Strat Blues set of pickups and make a custom pickguard for my Ibanez RG350DX to hold them. With all 3 pickups having their own Volume & tone. Thinking about adding a 2-way switch to select between 0.22 & 0.47 uf Cap.
John
January 15, 2013 @ 5:15 pm
You’re right that the pickups, the resistance/capacitance value choices you make and the way you wire up the circuit play a much more significant role in the sound character. Pot brands and cap material types will make subtle difference- for some people those little differences are very significant, and for others, they can’t hear the difference. Do the more significant stuff first!
Crimadella Man
January 16, 2013 @ 4:27 am
what are better brands of pots? Where can you get them? I was thinking of going to radioshack, will that be fine…or will they have crappy ones? Also, what kind of capacitors would you recommend, can i get them at radioshack?
I was thinking about wiring trying to find the best way to wire it where each pickup has its own volume and tone, but also i would like a mode switch for 0.22/0.47 capi. Maybe even make it a 3-way and add 0.35capi to give more tone adjustment.
Crimadella Man
January 16, 2013 @ 4:33 am
nevermind….dumb question(s)…all the needed information is in the video description.
Den Rooster
April 7, 2013 @ 6:42 pm
Good demonstration and helpful.
Lord Jock
January 18, 2014 @ 2:42 am
Just what I needed to hear and see Thanks for putting this up
darkdark123
January 24, 2014 @ 6:07 pm
Great!
Joshua Bardwell
January 27, 2014 @ 7:20 pm
Thanks a whole lot for this!!! I have been reading and reading on this
topic, but nothing substitutes for actually hearing. You saved me the
trouble of doing it myself. Major thanks!
Anonymous
February 19, 2014 @ 1:07 pm
Sold! 😀
DogRox00
March 22, 2014 @ 9:06 am
Well that’s contradicting on the other video you said that the linear is a
straight path a diagonal from 0 to 100 smooth straight where as an audio
taper changes drastically as you can see in the charts in your other video.
Now you’re saying it’s backwards? I always thought the linear is what you
want to increase the sound evenly all the way up that’s why I understood
from your the video was more correct than this video here.
petelebu
April 17, 2014 @ 1:33 am
great video man thank you so much!
St. Hugh
June 7, 2014 @ 6:27 pm
Hello John; I’ll tell you in short why some of us like linear pots best
with the quickest taper we can find. If you like doing volume swells with
your pinky (ala Phil Keaggy etc.), a pot with a very fast taper where you
only have to turn the pot a short distance to get a big swell is the only
way to go. Also, the same quick linear taper on a tone pot with a .047uF
cap is what allows Tele players like Roy Buchanan to get those wah-wah
effects with the tone knob. Thanks for the videos.
JED TAYLOR
July 11, 2014 @ 1:46 pm
your assessment is correct by what I heard
Jim Cooper
July 18, 2014 @ 8:35 am
I’ve switched to audio taper tone pots in all my Fenders. It gives much
more subtlety to the control. Seems like an obivious choice to me. I wonder
why Fenders tend to come with linear tone pots. Oh well! I also like to add
a treble bleed mod to all my volume pots.
mistergamba80
July 28, 2014 @ 10:57 pm
you took two minutes to sort it all out! you’re a good friend, thanks for
all your videos, they have helped me a lot.
Nick Zeak
July 31, 2014 @ 9:21 pm
Thank you for these videos! Made a tough decision very easy.
progressiverourke
August 10, 2014 @ 11:28 am
It’s important to note that for left handed players like myself, you need
to use an anti-log/reverse log/”C” taper potentiometer to replicate the
same smooth swell as a logarithmic/audio/”A” since we turn our knobs in the
opposite direction (volume/treble go up when you turn the pot
COUNTER-clockwise)
nmssis
August 26, 2014 @ 1:50 pm
John, does pot’s tolerance play into any significance when dealing with
no-load pots?
CodedToast Mark R
August 27, 2014 @ 10:24 am
Recently ordered 2 x audio taper cts pots off ebay….Glad i did now!
Pearly Gates
October 8, 2014 @ 6:09 am
I’m a left handed guitarist and i play left handed guitar.
Are there internally inverted curve audio taper pot on the market?
What happens if i use a normal audio taper on a left handed guitar?
You surely know, to have the same rotation sense of a right handed you have
to connect the pot inverted.
Thank you
Mark Richardson
July 12, 2015 @ 8:35 am
Very helpful, thanks!