Pickup experiment- bypassing electronics
Speaking with Pete Biltoft at Vintage Vibe Guitars about possible dog-eared P-90 pickup replacements for the Riviera P93, Pete recommended I first try bypassing the guitar’s electronics to see if they’re sucking the tone away. This experiment requires disconnecting the pickup wire from the electronics, and routing it directly to the output jack. The results are interesting. Read on for pictures, and audio, video before/after.
It felt a bit like open heart surgery! I held the neck volume pot with locking pliers so I could use a soldering iron to remove the red wire from the pot. Old baby blankets and polish cloths came in handy here to protect the finish:)
Rather than fishing out the output jack through the f-hole, I used alligator clips to attach an extra jack hanging off the side of the guitar. The green alligator connects the jack ground to the pickup ground. The red alligator connects to the red signal wire of the pickup. With this setup, I can easily swap the red alligator between the new output jack and right back to the neck volume pot.
Audio Examples
| Through Electronics | Bypassing Electronics |
|---|---|
| Pattern 1 | Pattern 1 |
| Pattern 2 | Pattern 2 |
| Pattern 3 | Pattern 3 |
So, it’s time to find and order some pots and caps! I’ll do a post on installation, and the followup for sound comparison.
September 10, 2009 @ 6:24 pm
Is it a good guitar?
September 10, 2009 @ 6:51 pm
Hope to see more ;D
September 15, 2009 @ 7:58 pm
September 21, 2009 @ 10:37 pm
September 21, 2009 @ 11:51 pm
September 22, 2009 @ 8:30 am
of neck). Measures 7/8″ thick at 1st fret and 1″ thick at 12th fret.
Fretboard width, edge to edge, at 1st fret is 1 3/4″ and at 12th fret is 2
1/16″. Scale length (bridge to nut) is 24 3/4″ I think it feels great. It’s
very similar to my G&L ASAT neck. A little fatter than my Taylor 714
acoustic neck. Way fatter than my Ibanez 540. I’ll post some pictures at my
blog.
October 9, 2009 @ 3:21 pm
Hi,
I own one of these instruments. Your demo and mod videos are cool. I’ve just left mine stock but now that I’ve seen what you are doing, I might fiddle with it a little bit. I really like this guitar but it does have some minor issues (little fret buzz at a couple frets) but nothing major. I’m going to view all your vids to see more about what you have done.
Thanks
crust
October 10, 2009 @ 3:37 pm
Hey Crust,
Mine also had fret buzz. I got a tech to dress the frets (file/crown/polish), and it’s much much better. He also filed the nut so it’s lower. I’m now able to get much lower action without buzz, compared to before.
I posted all the details before/after the luthier’s work here:
https://www.planetz.com/?p=16
Stay tuned – I’m working on a bunch of new posts/videos – replacing the pots, making a no-load tone pot, replacing the tone capacitor, installing new pickups, and replacing the Tune-o-matic with a roller bridge.
Keep in touch about your mods. Curious to hear how it goes!
-John
October 10, 2009 @ 2:51 pm
hey, i’ve been following this project of yours too. i really appreciate what you are doing as i’ve been considering this guitar for a while now. i was thinking about changing the tom for a roller version (probably the one at stewmac), changing the nut, getting some locking tuners, and changing the pickups. i’m a little torn with indecision over getting one of these and slowly upgrading it, or getting a regular dot and modding that. i like the chrome on the dots, but i love this wine red and the gold looks great on the wine red. maybe i could tarnish the gold and get it to look cool. anyway, i’m thinking about getting some tv jones powertrons to replace the pups with. they have a dogear p90 mount now for their pups. they’ll give the guitar almost a gretsch sound and can be wired for single coil taps. i’m not sure how it would look, but i think it would be cool and sound pretty great. what do you think?
October 10, 2009 @ 3:26 pm
Hey Zack,
I chose the Riviera P93 over the Dot because of the three P-90’s and the Bigsby. Modding a dot with a bigsby ends up looking a bit goofy, because of the holes left by the original tailstop.
I like the red/gold too, but that’s not that critical for me. To be honest, gold makes all replacement parts a bit more expensive.
If you want a bigsby, and want three routed spaces for pickups, then go for the Riviera P93. I think you’d be able to mod it really well.
I haven’t tried the TV Jones pickups, but I’ve read good things about them. I got a set of replacement P-90’s from Vintage Vibe Guitars, which are unique in that you can swap out magnets – I’ll be experimenting with AlNiCo 2,3,5 and Ceramic magnets, and I’ll be posting a series of videos about them soon.
As for the TOM, I got the Wilkinson roller from guitarfetish, and will be installing that after the pickups are done, so stay tuned for that.
The grover tuners are pretty stable, so I don’t currently plan to replace those.
I’m still considering a graphtech nut, but I’m gonna wait til after the pickups and bridge.
Let us know what you decide, and how your mods go!
-John
October 10, 2009 @ 3:49 pm
wow… that was quick! i thought about the holes being left from the stop tailpiece too, but i’m not too worried about it. i’m thinking more about cost at this point. i’d love to switch out all of the gold for chrome, but that’s just silly. it would end up costing almost as much as the guitar. i really like the way this guitar looks even though i’m not a huge fan of the gold. i’m waiting on an email from tv jones. he said he’d email a pic of what his pups look like in the dogear mount. i’m wondering if it would be too much bling. anyway, i’ll let you know what i decide if i can ever convince my wife to let me buy another guitar. “but, honey, i don’t have a semi-hollow guitar yet.”
October 16, 2009 @ 2:20 pm
Hey Zack,
Did you ever hear back from TV Jones with that pic? I’m curious how those PowerTrons would look – they are indeed outrageously blingy!
My wife didn’t quite get the distinction of the semi-hollow body. To her, it’s just another guitar 🙂
-John
October 14, 2009 @ 1:11 am
October 17, 2009 @ 6:42 am
here’s the picture they sent me. it’s not gold (obviously) and it’s not installed in a guitar, but i’m going to take this and play around in photoshop for a while. maybe i’ll be able to get a good idea what it would look like. i’m fairly certain it would sound awesome, which is all that really matters, but it would be nice if it didn’t look silly also.
Here’s the link to the picture.
October 19, 2009 @ 6:11 pm
I am liking the idea of this in Gold. I am even more interested in how it sounds. If you do this, post some video or sound clips. I like the Gretsch sound, and have wondered if I can mix this into the middle pickup. To be honest the p90s on my guitar are not too bad. I rarly use the middle pickup though unless I was a little less bite of the single coil. I also have a AC booster with the treble boosted pretty good, so that may be it.The big thing I noticed is the sustain on this. Funny I thought I had left my delay pedal on and looked down and laughed. It was the guitar. Get this, even my wife could tell the difference. She loved it! She’s awesome!!
November 21, 2009 @ 4:29 pm
basically the same size as the Riviera P93. Les Paul’ss and SG’s are
slightly thinner. See my blog for more specific details.
December 4, 2009 @ 1:29 pm
Because of the bigsby I’d like to install a graph tech nut, can you please measure the string spacing length at the nut?
December 5, 2009 @ 9:28 am
The string spacing at nut is 1 3/8″. Nut width is 1 11/16″. Nut thickness is just under 1/4″ at the base. Nut height is about 5/16″.
I was looking at Graphtech pre-slotted nuts, and for TUSQ, the part # you want is PQ-6060-00. For Black TUSQ, it’s PT-6060-00.
I think these are made slightly oversized, so they may need some minor adjustments (sanding for width and height).
Hope this helps!
March 17, 2010 @ 2:46 pm
You can switch to 1 meg on the volume,with a bright cap(for when you roll the volume back).
You can also mod the tone pots as no load pots,it’s easy to do and the info is online.
Finally you can take some windings off the pickups…this is a little more drastic but I did it with good results.
March 17, 2010 @ 3:51 pm
I haven’t yet tried 1Meg pots – that’ll probably help with brightness…
February 6, 2010 @ 12:30 pm
March 26, 2010 @ 12:49 pm
March 26, 2010 @ 3:20 pm
September 8, 2010 @ 8:10 pm
I’m going to check one of these out when the local GC gets them in. I want a new Gibson-style P90 axe.
October 15, 2010 @ 4:45 pm
October 31, 2010 @ 9:06 pm
October 30, 2010 @ 10:02 pm
October 31, 2010 @ 9:13 pm
November 2, 2010 @ 12:46 pm
November 5, 2010 @ 7:44 pm
hey, man – really helpful vids and articles!
i too share the same crazy passion for tone, and its great to see how another person goes about achieving an end result.
Just curious, how do you organize the parts you remove? i always have a box of clear plastic ziplok bags handy so i can bag the parts easily and not lose them (where the heck is that one last screw?!?). some people use small boxes, egg crates, ice trays. I find i bump into them too much and they all spill.
i havent read far enough, but have you done that middle pickup mod yet (push/pull to disable)? I may be getting this on the cheap (thank you condition 4 musicians friend), and im already thinking ahead. Either the pushpull pot, or a mini toggle switch or a mini push button on the pick guard for easier access. Or heck, do something more sacrilegious – use a 5way strat switch on the pick guard with standard strat wiring, with a toggle switch for all on or neck+bridge. Yeah, crazy.
keep up the projects and vids, and kudos for finishing them! lord knows i have way too much projects myself…
November 9, 2010 @ 4:27 pm
Hey Marc,
I usually just use a cereal bowl for my parts as I remove them. ziplock backs is a good idea to avoid the spilling!
I haven’t yet done the push/pull mod for the middle pickup, but that’s pretty high on my list now. I like the push/pull rather than the mini toggle, mostly because it seems such a shame to drill another hole in the top 🙂 If you’re seriously considering the strat switch, check out the super switch (at stewmac). Looks interesting.
Let me know what you decide!
-John
November 10, 2010 @ 12:11 pm
John,
youre right – push-pull makes more sense than a mini toggle switch, without further drastic mods. i was originally thinking of putting the mini toggle switch on the pickguard, just where the F-hole is covered. i usually stay away from drilling on the body.
On the same token, thats where i planned on putting the 5way strat switch (along the F-hole on the pickguard). This limits me to using the closed-style imports instead of the fat traditionally-exposed 5ways. The custom super switch is tempting, but may not fit since its fatter. I have one, I’ll check when i get the guitar. Wire it like a strat, then use the toggle switch hole for the all-on/bridge-neck mod.
Looking at the pickguard though, it seems unique with the cuts to expose the 3 dog-ears. I looked around and its not easily available. If i go the 5way switch route, i may have to use a different pickguard to ruin, er, i mean experiment with.
Another avenue i thought of was a rotary switch to replace the toggle, but it takes getting a little used to- changing pickup positions on the fly is tricky.
All this seems superfluous, but i dont really like the middle pickup always on, and even rolling off the volume affects the tone of the bridge and neck pickups. At the same token, ive always wondered how 3 P90’s in a strat wiring will sound like.
who knows – i may end up with just a traditional neck/bridge wiring, with that push-pull off/volume for the middle. 😀
the guitar is on its way, coming in to land on my front porch tomorrow. im already prepping the operating table. cant wait! 😛
– marc
November 10, 2010 @ 12:55 pm
Hey Marc,
Interesting idea putting the switches in the pick guard itself. The “e” sticker will fall off the minute you look at it, so that may be a good place 🙂
I took the pick guard off while experimenting with everything, and never put it back on, so that’s not an option for me.
I agree the rotary is probably a bit fidgety. I just found another interesting looking switch at stewmac: the “Free way” switch- it looks like a standard 3-position toggle switch, but it’s a 6 position dual pole. It’s hard to tell from the picture how well that would work in practice.
Let me know your results- I’ll be curious to hear.
Congratulations on the purchase! Have fun!
-John
November 10, 2010 @ 2:32 pm
John,
Thanks for pointing out stewmac- i forgot about the MEGASWITCH. Its about as thin as an import. There are different versions, the “E” version on stewmac is like a regular strat switch, except it combines the neck and bridge instead of just the middle alone in the center position.
i used an “E+” version on a ’51 Squier. On the P93, the positions can be: Bridge/ALL ON/Bridge+Neck/Neck/Neck+Middle.
looks like we have additional tests… 😉
– marc
November 27, 2010 @ 6:44 pm
February 1, 2011 @ 7:33 pm
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June 25, 2011 @ 9:29 pm
July 22, 2011 @ 3:22 am
Can you help me with this or just point me wher to find wiring diagram ?
July 25, 2011 @ 6:18 pm
July 26, 2011 @ 3:23 am
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July 2, 2012 @ 1:11 am
I think the internet is responsible for uprising of all these ‘gear theorists’. Used to be, guitar was defined by guys who played guitars. Now, it’s defined by assholes who sit around and theorize about them, obsess over concepts of “tone”, etc.
Fucking hate the internet. Heavy on information, light on knowledge.
July 30, 2012 @ 12:51 pm
September 1, 2012 @ 3:38 pm
And can you believe some guy named BB king is on youtube, talking about guitar playing like he knows what he’s talking about? Stupid internet.
September 1, 2012 @ 3:46 pm
November 19, 2012 @ 11:21 pm
November 22, 2012 @ 9:27 pm
watch?v=fxc6s6tXefE
December 26, 2012 @ 12:05 pm
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January 21, 2013 @ 9:34 am
January 24, 2013 @ 4:19 pm
December 3, 2013 @ 11:49 pm
That means the signal does not get pushed to ground through a capacitor.
If you don’t use a tone knob, take it out and make two different volumes.
If you want to keep the tone and cap, replace them with Alesandro or CTS
sealed military grade pots and an orange drop poly Sprague capacitor 5%
tolerance. Change those nasty strings it does wonders for tone.
January 11, 2014 @ 10:42 pm
type of bridge. Also major buzz in guitar all way down frets and at bridge.
Watched a few of your videos trying to clean up the sound. Can you tell me
what you did to get the buzz gone and what your action was set at. Thanks
January 29, 2014 @ 11:11 am
the neck pickup sans pots, and it reminded me of when I bought my 1st
Gretsch 6117 in 1986 (a 1967 model). Gretsch has offered since the 50s, the
“tone switch” setup (which I prefer to the tone knob), and in the middle
position, the circuitry is completely out of the loop. IOW, your hearing
the straight pickups.
So when I heard you say you were going to go straight, I knew the sound
would improve. So far, haven’t seen the rest of this vid, but have now
subscribed to your channel.
I used to own an 85 Epi Sheriton, and really miss that guitar. But I still
have that 1st Gretsch, and lots more!
Cheers
March 25, 2014 @ 11:16 pm
work you’ve done on it? This guitar seems like a great modding platform.
May 11, 2014 @ 11:43 pm
June 4, 2020 @ 4:50 am
Hi – I know this was a while back, but can you tell me if the stock P90s were two conductor plus screen – or just conductor plus screen? Thanks, David
June 5, 2020 @ 8:49 am
Hi David,
Yeah, nearly 11 years ago! See my wiring diagram at https://www.planetz.com/riviera-p93-circuit-wiring. So, I’m pretty sure they were single conductor.
-John
June 7, 2020 @ 2:15 am
An old thread but extremely useful – thank you! Turns out you were correct: single core. I re-wired with twin and screen for phase reverse – works a treat. Thanks again John, David