New Les Paul Setup
The factory setup on my new Epiphone Les Paul Tribute Plus definitely needs some work. Fortunately, it’s not quite as bad as my Riviera’s original factory setup. Thank you inspector #22 in the USA 🙂
For these measurements, I’m using a capo set of feeler gauges like this set from Grizzly.
Here’s what it looked like, right out of the box:
- the open action at the 17th fret was .101” on the high E and .083” on the low E.
- the nut seems to be cut just about right. With a capo on the 3rd fret and measuring at the 1st fret, it’s about .002” on the high E and .006” on the low E. Or measured open at the first fret, it’s .015” on the high E and .028” on the low E
- the truss rod was was .011” at the 7th fret, with capo on 1st and finger on 22nd.
- the intonation was completely whacked.
- The pickup heights were carelessly set. The neck pickup was angled to be too high close to the strings on the low side and too low on the high side, resulting in a boomy unbalanced sound.
- The pickup pole pieces were haphazardly adjusted.
So how does Gibson set up its Les Pauls at the factory? In a post to the Gibson Talk forums, Davomite, the final inspector at Gibson Memphis posted the following factory setup notes (I added the purple decimal inch values in parentheses):
Hi I’m David the final inspector at Gibson Memphis. I can give you the factory spec info. on our setups. You will need a mechanics rule to do this properly.
To check neck relief: fret the low E at the first and 15th fret (not 12th) reach to the 7th fret and tap string. There should be a small space between string and fret – no thicker than a piece of paper (about .004”). Do the same with the high E.
ACTION: fret low E at first fret and measure the distance from the bottom of the to the top of the 15th fret. It should be 5/64″ (.078”). Do the same with the high E, measurement should be 3/64″ (.047”). Now measure the string height at the nut; underside of the string to the top of the fret. Low E and A should measure 2/64″ (.0312”), D and G =1.5/64″ (.0234”) and B and high E = 1/64” (.0156”). If string height at nut is correct, recheck string height at 12th fret with strings open. Measurement for low and high E’s should be the same as measurement taken at the 15th.
Pickups: Fret low E at 22nd fret and measure pickup height from underside of string to point on pickup closest to string. Bridge pickup should be 3/64″ (.047”), neck pickup should be 4/32” (.125″). Fret high E at 22nd fret, distance for both pickups should be 3/32″ (.094”).
Play test: Play every string at every fret checking for buzzes. Bend High E string 1 and 1/2 steps, beginning at the sixth fret and ending at 22nd, checking for “choking” and to make sure string stays in nut notch.
In their Gibson Backstage Pass setup tips article (easy to read version here), they recommend adjusting the truss rod so the fretboard is level, and then giving the truss rod nut an 1/8 turn for a hair-width relief.
This Epiphone has a double action truss rod so it’s a bit different: turning the truss rod counter-clockwise adds relief, clockwise removes relief and adds backbow, as usual, but there’s a strange space in between those where the truss rod goes completely loose. Don’t leave the truss rod in that in-between loose state, as it makes the body warble and rattle when playing. Note (thanks Craig!): you’ll need a 4mm Allen wrench for the truss rod- but if you don’t have metric wrenches, a 5/32″ (3.97mm) wrench is close enough.
So, that’s the intended factory setup, which is pretty different from the setup I received! Here’s what I did:
It was fairly painless to adjust the bridge – this Epiphone LockTone Tune-o-matic is machined pretty nicely, and the height and saddle intonation screws all adjust very easily. Public service announcement: always remember to use the right size screwdriver tips to avoid damaging the screws!
I made the following preliminary adjustments, which turned out to be pretty close to the Gibson recommendations:
- adjusted the truss rod for slightly less neck relief, about .008” holding 1st and 22nd. Using Gibson’s method, holding 1st and 15th, this is about .004”
- adjusted the action open at the 17th fret to .062” on the high E and .084” on the low E. Using Gibson’s method, holding 1st and measuring at 15th, this is .047” on the high E and .080” on the low E
- fixed the intonation. The saddle bottomed out on the G string, so I will need to flip the saddle around when I change the strings
- adjusted the pickup heights for balance
- adjusted pickup pole pieces to follow the neck radius
Things left to do:
- flip the G saddle and re-intonate
- scrape, clean and oil the fretboard
- level a few high frets causing some buzz
- polish the frets
Not surprisingly, the Tune-o-matic retainer wire does rattle a bit, so I’ll be replacing this bridge with a Gotoh 1511-N from StewMac. While I’m there, I may get the Gotoh 5740 aluminum stop piece as well, just to see if it makes any difference. I’ll let you know…
Gianni Bangkok
October 30, 2012 @ 11:06 am
Hey, I got here through your helpful tone capacitor videos, and got sucked into your Les Paul saga. Thanks for the detailed examples!
A couple Les Paul setup tips; it’s helpful to think of an LP as almost an acoustic guitar. The truss rod doesn’t go very far past the neck joint, and the mass of wood there makes the adjustable length of the neck about what Gibson measures, from the first to the 15th fret. Adjustments to action and relief above the neck joint (if necessary) are mostly accomplished in the fretwork. (Think about how an acoustic fingerboard is often engineered to have some “fall-away” over the body.)
Tune O Matic bridge saddles can have, and often do have, slots filed into them, much like nuts. This is one way to even out minor discrepancies in radius. Also, it might be helpful to have a slightly larger radius at the bridge than over the fingerboard, even with a single radius fretboard, as the strings are in a different.. orbit? around the theoretical center of the radius. It might be easier to get a 15″ radius bridge to match a 14″ radius fingerboard, if any of those are available.
A gentle fret level and polish is a great idea on any guitar that hasn’t had one, it should bring your Epi into a new world of quality. A new nut might also help, depending on the material and cut of the stock one.
I’d love to hear how the aluminum tailpiece changes the sound, if you do a before and after vid, even better!
Cheers, and thanks again for the vids,
GB
John
October 30, 2012 @ 12:15 pm
Hi there,
Thanks for the helpful comments! I did get the Gotoh bridge (12″ radius unfortunately) and tailpiece – I haven’t done the install yet as I want to do a before/after video. Hopefully soon!
I also picked up some fretwork tools, and have been doing some learning on an acoustic guitar- so with that experience under my belt, I’ll try doing a light level/polish on the LP.
-John
Kaona
April 17, 2013 @ 1:02 pm
Hi John!
I purchased a new Epi 1960 LP Tribute Plus in (not very) faded cherryburst for $480 a few months ago and think it’s a great guitar! It’s also an amazing value with plenty of the proverbial “Bang for the Buck”; they put their money in all the areas important to me like upgraded electronics and high-ration Grovers (even an upgraded HS Case), and good design (unweight-relieved body, figured top, deep tenon neck w/ rosewood fingerboard, top and neck binding, etc.)
I’ll keep lovin’ it either way but I was wondering if you ever did your sustain comparison with high-priced Gibson (although, as you know, there are differences even between same model guitars.)
Thanks and Keep on Pickin’, James
(“My first impression of the sustain is good, but it isn’t as magically amazing as I remembered from the Gibson Les Paul Traditional. I plan to take the guitar in with me to the Best Buy where I last played that Les Paul Traditional, and I’ll do a side-by-side comparison.”)
John
April 17, 2013 @ 1:10 pm
Hey James,
I’m still lovin my LP too- playing it every day. It’s proven to be totally solid, both in practice and playing live.
I never took it in to Best Buy, but I did stop in there shortly after I wrote that post, and pulled that guitar down off the wall again, and it was not all that impressive. I think the strings may have been a little dead…
I’d still like to compare mine side-by-side with a well-kept Gibson. Overall though, I’ve been totally satisfied with my LP, so I haven’t really been thinking much about how it compares… And that’s a happy place to be in 🙂
-John
Kaona
April 17, 2013 @ 7:52 pm
Glad to hear you’re happy; maybe you’ve just become accustomed to the famous sustain of a well made LP. I was thinking, although I’m sure Gotoh bridges are high quality, if your main problem with the Epi TOM is a loose retaining spring, I’ve read that you can remove and hand shape said spring to fit quite tightly when reinstalled.
p.s. I even prefer the less expensive-to-apply polyurethane finish on the Tribute Plus. While thin layers of nitrocellulose lacquer probably contribute significantly to the sound of my Carpathian Spruce topped classical guitar, I doubt there’s much audible difference on a solidbody, and with no pick guard (my preference), LPs will benefit from an extra-durable finish. I’m not a fan of the prematurely Aged Relic look. I treat a guitar like a new car; some eventual damage is inevitable but to be avoided as much as possible. Play On, James Kaona
John
April 19, 2013 @ 2:44 pm
Hey James,
I replaced the Epi TOM with the Gotoh 1511 and 5740. The bridge has better intonation range, and of course, no retainer wire so I don’t have to worry about that 🙂
I agree- buying distressed finish guitars always seems really silly to me. Like buying pre-torn jeans 🙂
-John
Craig
December 8, 2013 @ 5:04 pm
Thanks, this is a really useful article. The one detail missing, which I found elsewhere, is that for truss rod adjustment on this model (and probably most Epiphone LPs, I would guess), you need a 4mm Allen wrench. If you don’t have metric wrenches, 5/32″ (3.97mm) is close enough.
John
December 10, 2013 @ 8:55 am
Thanks for the tip Craig. I’ll add a note to the text.
-John
Victor Lowe.
March 11, 2014 @ 4:12 pm
What if the neck chokes at the first five frets & the last five – but it’s not choking in the middle?
John
March 11, 2014 @ 4:55 pm
That sounds like a complicated geometry problem 🙂
It’s possibly a combination of a nut cut too low, and a bow in the neck or high frets. The bow in neck is a simple truss rod adjustment. The other problems would require a new nut, and fret leveling.
I’d get a ruler, and adjust the truss rod to make the neck as flat as possible:
I use this neck straight edge: http://www.neckcheckguitar.com/fender%20guitar%20repair%20tools.html
Then I use a fret rocker (this one: http://www.neckcheckguitar.com/fret%20guitar%20repair%20tools.html ) to look for high frets, etc.
Good luck!
-John
Victor Lowe
March 11, 2014 @ 7:15 pm
Hi John, thank you very much for the advice… It was deeply appreciated. I think the guitar I’ve been attempted to fix up is just ready to be used as fire wood? I doubt even having three wishes from a genie would help bring it back to its former glory. It was a Chinese copy… & not a very good one at that. Thankfully, I didn’t buy it… I inherited it. I’m wondering where I left that lighter fluid? 😛
John
March 12, 2014 @ 7:33 am
Before you light it up like Jimi, maybe see if a luthier or guitar tech will give you a free estimate on necessary work. It may not be as bad as you think.
Good luck,
-John
Victor Lowe
March 12, 2014 @ 4:07 pm
John, further to your usual fantastic advice… I think I may have more fun actually lighting it up like Jimi Hendrix? At least I’ll get sone enjoyment out of it… 😛 My poor mind is fractured trying to resurrect this heap of….!!!! 🙂
Kevin
July 14, 2015 @ 1:27 pm
Thanks, thought I’d go crazy trying to make it sound good at Epi’s “standard” (6/64 & 4/64 !), set it to Gibson specs and it’s fine, just wanted to see what others thought. Set up from factory was total crap on mine also, had to do EVERYTHING!
John
July 14, 2015 @ 1:31 pm
Yes, these Epi factory setups (“inspected in the usa”) are terrible.
I bought my Gibson Les Paul Studio from Sweetwater, and it came nicely set up. I’m not sure whether that is the benefit of Sweetwater or Gibson.
-John
Rocky Akins
July 16, 2015 @ 7:38 am
Davomite is incorrect and I doubt very seriously he is a final inspector or even works for Gibson. Contact Gibson yourself and they will furnish you with the factory set-up specs for Les Paul and I did and here they are. First have your guitar in playing position, have a capo, set of auto feeler gages, and a 6″ ruler that measures 32nd/64ths.
1. Capo the 1st fret, press bass string at 22nd fret, feeler gage between top of 7th fret and bottom of Low E……spec is .012″
2. Remove capo. with ruler measure top of 12th fret to bottom of Low E….spec 5/64, High E 3/64
3. Hold down both strings at 22nd fret, from top of pickup to bottom of Low E, and High E…..Bridge pu 1/16 or 4/64, and neck pu is 3/32 both Low E and High E.
Intonate the guitar and you have a factory setup Les Paul that plays dynamite.
John
July 16, 2015 @ 10:10 am
Thanks for the info.
Davomite’s post was from 2009, so it’s certainly possible that they’ve revised their recommended setup over the years. Note also that there are also some differences in the recommended setup that I linked from Gibson: http://www.gibson.com/backstage/tech002printable.htm
In any case, all these recommended setups should be taken with a grain of salt since what really matters is how it feels to you- there’s no “perfect setup”. These are all reasonable starting points, from which you can adjust to taste…
John
Rocky Akins
January 22, 2016 @ 1:57 pm
Doubt they have revised the action and setup. Got my first Gibson ES 335 in 1963 and the 5/64 and 3/64 action was the same even back then, so were the pickup heights and .012 relief. Since then I’ve had 2001 Les Paul Classic Plus, 2014 Les Paul Standard Plus, 2007 Les Paul R9, and 2014 ES 335 Satin. I contacted Gibson on the 2014 Les Paul and 2007 R9 to get factory specs setup and Gibson sent me an email too. Action at 12th fret Low -5/64, High -3/64, pickup height hold down 22nd fret, 1/16 both sides bridge and 3/32 both sides neck, relief is capo first fret, hold down Low E at 22nd and should measure .012″ between top of 7th fret and bottom of string. They have all played great with the factory setup specs. Dan Erlewine also references the Gibson factory spec as the same as this, like I said I got it straight from Gibson themselves and they set them up this way to sell guitars. I also agree with you that action is a personal thing and each player to his own. I guess I have always been prone to playing both Fender and Gibson along with Ovation at factory specs….too me they just seem to play the best and with every genre of music. Just my take of course and realize one size don’t fit all….those that hammer or beat the guitar naturally will need higher action and those with a feather touch can get by with even lower action without buzz.
Keep Smooth Fret’n
Rocky Akins
February 1, 2016 @ 4:28 pm
Try bending a LP or ES 335 with a set of 10s one and a half steps on the high E with action at 12th fret 3/64 as a factory check per David of Gibson Memphis…….can’t be done at A440 tuning. Really don’t believe David even works at Gibson Memphis at all….Gibson denies Davomites inspector specs
Lou Pascarelli
July 31, 2017 @ 9:25 am
I have a EPI LP STUD that I have been having mixed feelings on .. Neck is too wide , but I need to live with that .. Neck is twisted at times from the top to the 5th or 6th fret –sloping to the hi E .. Sometimes it is gone .. Why is that ? And how the heck do I get any adjustment out of the darn truss rod … It only moves @ 1/2 turn than it stops –either way u turn it … Dual action truss rod ? What does that mean ? Is there another adjustment in the neck pup cavity ?
John Cooper
July 31, 2017 @ 3:19 pm
A single action truss rod really only corrects a forward bow in the neck (caused by tension in the strings). A dual action truss rod can also correct a reverse bow (by rotating the truss rod in the other direction). Here is a diagram:
http://www.godinguitars.com/Double%20Action%20truss%20rod%20adjustment.pdf
It should certainly be able to turn more than a half turn in each direction.
Sounds like your guitar has a number of issues that need attention. If it’s a new guitar, take it back to the shop! Otherwise, you’ll either need to take it to a luthier or start really digging in on a DIY guitar repair project. See Dan Erlewine’s books and Stewmac for tools.
John
Lou Pascarelli
August 1, 2017 @ 9:33 am
I bought it on line from a dealer for very little .. It has a good # on it –so not a 2nd or throw-away… It has a gouge out of the top of the body … Something must have hit it .. But it would only affect the price of the axe , and nothing more .. Not used — maybe a demo from their place .. Sometimes the twist is there , and sometimes not .. Just makes the guitar more difficult to play for me .. If I bring it in I will have put enough $ into it to have bought a new one ..Specially if I need a new truss rod…I do appreciate your info and thoughts on this ..
John Cooper
August 6, 2017 @ 4:51 pm
I’ve never seen a guitar with an intermittent neck twist. I recommend you find a local luthier who should be willing to chat about it before charging you for a repair. They may have more insight into what the problem might be.
Good luck!
-John
Lou Pascarelli
August 7, 2017 @ 1:03 pm
Thanks for your info , John .. I will think of doing something like this soon … Just have a few other issues I need to deal with now .. Could being left out on the stand 24 /7 , cause such a problem ? I do place it in the case for several weeks while I did surgery .. Noticed no change in the condition .. Humidity is quite low here .. But when I got it , the bridge was all the way up on the bass side . Don’t know why !! Lowered it & ran it up til the buzz stopped …Someone ran the bridge up b4 I got it .. Could be neck was already twisted , and they didn’t tell me that issue … bought through a dealer .. No names .. Thanks …
John
August 15, 2017 @ 9:08 am
Humidity would be more of an issue with an acoustic than a solid body. I leave my solid bodies out 24×7, but keep my acoustic in the case. The height of a Les Paul tune-o-matic is adjusted by the thumb screws, and I can’t imagine humidity raising the bridge significantly. I hope you can get this sorted out. Painful lesson learned- if you’re going to buy a used guitar sight unseen, make sure there’s a solid return policy!
Lou Pascarelli
August 16, 2017 @ 8:16 am
Thanks again for your input .. It is sitting on its stand as it was last night … Fine (straight ) across the neck .. This a m seems a slight – very slight – bend toward the hi E side .. It plays much better when it is straight .. Sounds & feels best when it is straight … Never again to buy an axe — sight unseen .. YES … I actually was able to intonate it last night .. Man it played good ..It needed that .. glad I was able to do it myself .. Needed to have it straight to accomplish the task … Right UR !! I never heard of a on again — off again twist … should be all the time either way ..
John
August 16, 2017 @ 12:09 pm
It’s definitely a mystery, but sounds like you may be getting it to a state where it’s playable to your satisfaction. Hope that neck settles down for you 🙂
Lou Pascarelli
August 16, 2017 @ 4:43 pm
Yes I sure hope so .. I am no longer playing pro , so I just need to satisfy my own ear.. And have it easy enough to play .. My fault .. I didn’t realize the neck width would be so wide .. But thanks for your concern , and quick comments …
Alain
March 23, 2020 @ 3:53 am
Hi John,
Great article.
I have this epiphone in dark cherry. It’s perfect.
But I think putting a treeble bleed would be a good option. What do you think about it ? Do you know where I can find the wiring diagram?
John Cooper
March 23, 2020 @ 7:05 pm
Typical Les Paul wiring doesn’t suffer from much treble loss when turning down the volume knob. However if you want to experiment with wiring tweaks and treble bleed, here are some resources: http://www.dominocs.com/AshBassGuitar/index.html?WireLibrary-Gibson.html
https://www.planetz.com/guitar-treble-bleed-capacitors/
-John
Bill Alicandro
January 30, 2023 @ 7:09 am
I prefer a wound 3rd string, but it buzzes, and since the bridge height can only be adjusted on one side and the other, the action on 1 and 2 becomes too high. Should I just go with an unwound 3rd and get on with my life? Thanks.
John Cooper
January 30, 2023 @ 8:56 am
Hey Bill,
Depending on the shape of the bridge saddle pieces, reversing 3rd string saddle piece may slightly raise the string. You could also try replacing that one saddle piece with one from a different bridge- but that could be a bit awkward. Certainly the simplest solution, as you say, is to just get used to the unwound string!
Good luck,
-John