Guitar Electronics Comparisons
In this video, I finally bring together the results of the last 20 or so videos, and demo the results of my Epiphone Riviera P93 electronics overhaul. I first demonstrate the original Epi setup, then swap in my new electronics, and then replace the pickups with a matched set of new Vintage Vibe Guitars P-90’s.
The new electronics include CTS 500k audio taper pots, no-load mod on the tone pot, an Orange Drop .01uF tone cap, all new shielded wire, and a new Switchraft L12A jack. So, if you’re wondering what it might sound like if you change out your pots and caps in your guitar, this should be a good example. (Note, I’m changing the jack for mechanical reasons, not to improve the sound).
The recordings are made with a Rode NT1 large diaphragm mic, placed 4 inches away from and slightly below center of the speaker grill of my Vox VT30 amp.
I was very careful to record the three different combinations all on the same day, with precisely the same setup (same strings, same amp settings, same mic and mic placement). I made every effort to play the same riffs with the pick in the same position over the strings, playing with the same strength. Alas my skills are not quite exact enough, but I did my best. I went through this whole process last month, and discarded the resulting recordings because I realized that the microphone had been bumped and shifted a few inches, half way through the process. It’s surprising (or obvious depending on your point of view) what a hugely significant difference there is in the recorded tone with the mic in a slightly different place!
To summarize the results, the original Epi pickups and electronics have nice mellow sound, but there’s not a lot of dynamics in the brightness when I play hard. Swapping in the new electronics definitely increases the brightness, adds some upper-mid resonance, and is more dynamic when I dig in. This is more evident in the clean examples – not so much when playing distorted. I attribute the improvement in brightness mostly to the no-load tone pot mod.
I like the taper of the CTS pots more than the original Epi pots, which sound way more linear than log to me. This matches the pot taper measurements I showed in my pot tapers video. The difference is more noticeable with the volume pot than with the tone pot.
The biggest change in sound obviously comes with the new pickups. They’re not as boomy, and are much brighter with far greater dynamics when digging in. There’s more clarity and bite when playing distorted. They really sound great to me, but I can understand if some people prefer the mellower sound of the Epi pickups. I find these VVG pickups to be much more versatile since you can always roll off some of the brightness with the tone knob.
In an amusing twist of fate, the sun came out from behind the clouds while I was recording the examples of the new pickups, so the video gets brighter along with the brighter sounds 🙂
Venancio Portalatin
December 30, 2009 @ 10:42 am
New Pickups and Electronics have way more clarity. I think you made a nice
improvement on an already great sounding guitar. Great vid!
reddieseled
December 31, 2009 @ 2:09 pm
I’ve installed a .0022uf (2200pf) on my PRS SE, but it’s too subtler amount to make a noticible differnce to the tone, but it certainly brightened up the tone over a tone sapping .022uf.. Defintly going to try a .01uf on there now, nice cross between bright and Jazzy. Intresting video, also the new pickups do sound more dynamic indeed.
reddieseled
December 31, 2009 @ 2:15 pm
Its also worth looking into adjusting the pole pieces to balnce out the magnetic field produced. It would be intresting to see if there was a golden ratio between the strings diameter / output to the distance of the pole piece in relation, almost like intonation. At the minute I’m using my ears though. On my PRS, I found it made the pickups sound far cleaner and defined, almost like a single coil. It’s not a gimmick!
Would be intresting to see effects on P-90’s
RD
bfv102290
January 7, 2010 @ 8:14 pm
Now you need some Grover machine heads.
jack
January 22, 2010 @ 7:04 pm
hey john – nice thorough comparison! Interesting results. I think personally I like the mellower tones in general, but thats a question of taste; more to the point, its interesting to see that there is a difference when you swap out the electronics. Not huge, but its there, so its something to consider.
One other thing i wanted to mention – your videos are crystal clear, they look great – but maybe you can balance out the audio volume a bit; I find that I have to turn my computer volume way up to hear you speak, and then turn it way down when you start playing your guitar! 🙂
John
January 22, 2010 @ 8:09 pm
Thanks for the suggestion Jack. Sometimes, in the midst of all the video editing, it’s easy to forget about the overall volume levels.
-John
zack
January 23, 2010 @ 9:32 am
hey, john. i was wondering about the pickguard. are you planning on leaving it off? since you had to fill and drill for the new pups, would it even still fit? just curious.
John
January 23, 2010 @ 12:06 pm
It does still fit, but it’s close 🙂 If it were necessary, it should be pretty easy to use a file to widen the slots in the pickguard to allow it to fit over the pickups.
In any case, I haven’t decided – I kinda like the way it looks without it!
-John
John
January 30, 2010 @ 8:52 am
I think you can hear in this video — changing pots/caps will be the most
work and the least expensive, but least dramatic change in sound. Changing
pickups is a bit easier, but more expensive and will have a bigger change
in sound. Changing the amp is the easiest thing to do, can also be a
dramatic change in sound, and can be pretty cheap or insanely expensive
depending on what you choose. The choice is yours! 🙂
beauboutwell
February 1, 2010 @ 7:13 pm
Hey man, great job on all of the tutorials. I’m gonna have to do some work to an Epiphone Sheraton, so this was super helpful. Unfortunately, now I have Black Dog stuck in my head…
Oh yeah… oh yeah… oh… oh… oh
evhfan1000
February 4, 2010 @ 9:38 pm
Ok i’ve got a question, can i make a coil tap also a no load tone pot?
John
February 9, 2010 @ 11:55 am
Kind of a confusing question. Adding a switch to let you play your humbucker as single coil is unrelated to the tone pot.. So, yes, there’s no issue with doing both mods– switch for coil tap, and no load tone pot. Go for it.
Uncrvd
February 8, 2010 @ 7:55 am
This short vid was more helpful than 10 hours of reading forums!
Thanks dude
broeder6x6
March 28, 2010 @ 4:41 am
i’m going to build a guitar (exept the neck) and the electronics are the part where i’m afraid of
John
March 28, 2010 @ 10:26 am
The only thing to fear is fear itself 🙂
The best way to proceed is to learn as much as you can, and don’t be afraid to experiment. I have some tips and book suggestions in the faq at my blog.
Good luck!
WannaBeatle
April 28, 2010 @ 11:43 pm
very informative. I’ve seen a few of yer other vids on the Epi here. I’ve been curious about that exact model anyway.
I kinda wanna get one too…mainly because the Casino vibe it has..but, didn’t know how it sounded. I still may get one of these days.
19Bigfoot85
May 11, 2010 @ 7:05 pm
Those new pots and pickups are a great combination! First-class job! Also, Kudos on playin Black Dog.
MrMisterBluesman
July 9, 2010 @ 9:38 am
Interesting comparison with a p90’s …but it seems that its most likely I might not change the pickup when I get this guitar since I prefer the muddy sound(stock) ….I actually want to try this guitar but it seems that no guitar store has it. Is it possible to change the pickups with a humbucker? i mean does the guitar’s hardware allows a humbucker to insert on it?
John
July 9, 2010 @ 9:56 am
@MrMisterBluesman – yeah frustrating not being to play a guitar before buying. You could try online GC and MF – they have pretty solid return policies so risk is low. Not sure about replacing the P-90’s with humbuckers. There are drop-in replacement humbuckers for soapbar P-90’s, but sInce these are dog-eared, the holes are out on the sides and you’d have to do some body-work to fill and hide them (which is hard to get right). If you don’t care how it looks, you could certainly do it. 🙂
logix2010
September 3, 2010 @ 11:20 am
not so much a difference in sound from the electronics but the pickup change sounds great
fenderstratguy
September 12, 2010 @ 10:56 pm
Dude, you rock. And you are a genius.
You have to be a scientist. I would bet money.
MrWizard777
September 29, 2010 @ 10:50 pm
Sweet vid dude, i cant wait till i can get this guitar!!
norwegiangangster
October 21, 2010 @ 5:36 pm
Dude, I’ve been thinking about getting one of these Rivieras and doing the same mods to it. This is such a useful video. Thanks for taking the time to do put this beast together for the youtube guitar nation to enjoy!
etoufee
November 22, 2010 @ 2:47 pm
Great vid, thanks for taking the time to do a great comparison. Just bought this model and love the way it plays but, yeah, missing some of the spank from the Epi 90s. I was thinking Lollars, but maybe I’ll reconsider!
mattbwright
January 11, 2011 @ 4:07 pm
Thank you for all this work. I just bought a P-93 and it’s close. I wondered about how much of a difference upgrades would make. If it would then be a keeper. I think it’s worth it. It’s a very nicely built guitar. I mostly have Gibson’s, but I think with the work it’s a keeper.
devinanddeven
January 27, 2011 @ 11:16 pm
milfs
bisaillion
April 19, 2011 @ 6:35 pm
hi. Great video, super informative. Thanks for contributing to the collective consciousness 😉
I have a question about the VVG pups. Which Alnico pups did you go with? I would bet V’s. I’m likely going to order a set. Thanks
John
April 19, 2011 @ 8:42 pm
@bisaillion – yes, these are the Alnico V’s. I also got a complete set of the other magnets, and I’ll be doing a video comparison of the different magnet types. Eventually!! So much to do, so little time!
buiwashere
May 7, 2011 @ 1:28 am
Fantastic as always. Very informative videos with a methodical way of experimenting with different components.
drummerfreak102
July 16, 2011 @ 10:23 am
hoe much do the new pickups you put in cost? and when using distortion did the stock pickups have alot of the p90 hum?
John
July 25, 2011 @ 6:09 pm
@drummerfreak102 – around $200 or so, for a set of 3. yeah, they’ll hum when used singly. but any single coil pickup will hum in some situations. if the middle pickup is RWRP, you can cancel the hum by combining the middle with the other pickups.
MrMutron
August 18, 2011 @ 9:41 pm
@johnplanetz Correct me if I am wrong, but in a other vid of yours, do you not reccomend using Linear pots for BOTH the vol. AND tone? Here you are using Audio for Volume and Linear for tone correct? Is this because CTS only makes No load tone pots in “Audio” taper?
John
August 18, 2011 @ 9:44 pm
@MrMutron – in my pot taper comparisons video, I said that I prefer audio taper for both volume and tone. and CTS doesn’t make no-load pots- that’s a modification you can do yourself, which I describe in another video.
wipers86
March 30, 2012 @ 10:55 am
thanks very much man, this video help a lot
danakerman
July 5, 2012 @ 8:34 pm
amazing how much more clear and articulate the VVG pickups are
Judasmac
August 5, 2012 @ 5:11 am
Maybe it’s the recording or the limitation of my playback, but I find the difference of the electronics almost undetectable, and I wonder how people would respond if you left the samples unlabeled until the end. But there in the room, playing, the difference you say is clear?
The new pups are much clearer and bell-like, they also don’t seem to break up as soon, but there is also a dramatic loss on the low end, at least in the recording. Is it that dramatic for you in the room? Great series!
John
August 8, 2012 @ 2:25 pm
Make sure you’re watching the highest quality youtube video (select 720p). The difference with the electronics is subtle but definitely there. I just listened to the clean recordings and clearly hear more brightness with the electronics change. And of course the pickup change is a much more dramatic change. The new pickups are a lot less boomy, more balanced bass response.
djwetto63
December 22, 2012 @ 12:24 pm
Hey hey momma said the way you groove…
Oldhippie3
January 28, 2013 @ 7:54 am
You make yourself a lot of work, to show us a very good comparison !! Thank you for that !!!
Clóvis Amaral
March 24, 2013 @ 11:00 am
Hello, I would turn on my telecaster 1 Seymour Duncan JB-L neck, 1 single on the bridge, with a 3-way switch, volume potentiometer and one tone with push / pull for the JB-L, could you help me ?
thanks in advance
All the best for you.
John
April 6, 2013 @ 9:59 pm
Take a look at the Guitar Wiring Diagram Archive at the guitarelectronics website- you should find the schematic you need. You can also see my Feb 16, 2011 blog post on push/pull pots for how to wire a kill switch.
Clóvis Amaral
April 7, 2013 @ 6:38 am
Thanks John
riolux
April 3, 2013 @ 12:43 am
Very helpful video, thanks for the effort!
bluesman209
April 9, 2013 @ 6:15 am
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
bluesman209
April 9, 2013 @ 6:18 am
To my ears, the stock pickups with the upgraded pots sound the best by far.
Gian Guico
April 21, 2013 @ 8:32 am
hey is it good to put a slash alnico pro pickups to my epiphone les paul custom pro? and I’m also planning to put a bumble bee capacitors on it
John
April 23, 2013 @ 11:03 am
I haven’t tried those pickups, but they should install easily into your LP.
MrDzurovetz
May 19, 2013 @ 11:03 pm
Where can you pick up the vintage vibe pickups?
John
May 21, 2013 @ 9:34 am
Directly from Pete Biltoft at the VintageVibeGuitars website.
You can talk to him about your requirements and he will custom-build them for you.
glassbottleblues
May 24, 2013 @ 6:22 pm
John what do you do for a living, your very well spoken and seem to be very good with measurements and numbers. Engineer of some sort? Nice videos, I’ve watched them all
John
May 29, 2013 @ 4:07 pm
Thanks for the kind words. I’m a software engineer at Korg R&D, designing synths. More bio/faqs/etc at my blog at planetz.
Diego Hernan
June 15, 2013 @ 6:22 am
Hello John, I was looking for an Epihone 345/355 style, (a semihollow with Bigsby in that budget range). The thing is that those models are sold out and I can’t find any in the second hand market. Would you think this is guitar would be a would choice? would it respond well if eventually I replace one of the P93’s for a Classic ’57?
Thanks for your videos, best regars,
John
June 20, 2013 @ 3:56 pm
It’s too bad those models are hard to find, because I think those are what you really want. The P93’s cavity routing and dog-eared covers don’t make for an easy change over to humbuckers. You may be better off with a Dot or Sheraton, and adding a bigsby. BTW, I have the Classic 57’s on my Les Paul, and they’re awesome.
David Estrada
July 7, 2013 @ 1:20 pm
what mod in new electronics did most of the change in tone (pots, no load mod or caps)?
John
July 11, 2013 @ 9:02 am
Changing pickups made the most difference. The rest were very subtle. The no load mod brightened up the sound a hair. The cap changed the way the tone knob feels and sounds. Changing pots to same resistance/taper makes very little difference. But if you change resistance, it’ll change the brightness, and changing taper will change the feel.
Terry Kolemaine
July 28, 2013 @ 5:45 pm
John,
Great, informative video on your mods on the Epi Riviera.
One question though. I’ve heard the the metal pick-up covers on the p-90s alters (mics) the sound of the guitar. I’ve ordered some plastic covers just in case that will help to brighten up the Riviera. Do you agree that the metal might be impeding the pickups somewhat? Or should I just bite the bullet and replace the stock ones with the VVG p-90s?
I’m NOT electronics savvy so the mods to the electronics might as well have been in Greek. I’m hoping the plastic covers, a roller bridge and “Nut Sauce” will make some improvement in the Riviera.
John
July 28, 2013 @ 8:19 pm
The best thing you could do is try removing the metal covers and see how you like the sound. Plastic covers will be somewhere between the metal covers and no covers.
John
Terry Kolemaine
July 28, 2013 @ 9:13 pm
Thanks for the input, John.
I forgot to mention in my original message that, in spite of the slightly muddy tone, I absolutely love the Riviera! Fast, smooth, easy fingering, sharp looking and a real bargain!
TERRY
guitarbluz62
August 28, 2013 @ 9:39 am
Excellent work, John. Appreciate all your hard work on this, although I imagine it has been a labor of love. I just bought a used Korean-made Epi SG G-400 for slide guitar that I’m getting ready to mod the pots and wiring on. Also switching out the Alnico Classic/Classic Plus pups to HB-sized P-90’s (still looking for the right ones). Thanks!
Davesintexas
January 14, 2014 @ 5:43 am
Man, I had to go through my board and then my headsets in order to actually
hear any difference what so ever. What I did seem to hear was that the new
gear sounded much More clear and Pronounced than the Older PUPs. But,
beyond that I think that so much is Lost on YT tone and sound that its just
not possible to hear all the changes that you hear. I know that I seem to
lose three generations when I download to YT.
So, on the work that you did was there a Dramatic change in the TONES?
Ross Addams
January 25, 2014 @ 4:50 am
What a complete waste of time and money mate……as every serious player
knows the tone is in the players fingers…………..not the gear!!!!
jiwon kim
February 13, 2014 @ 11:41 am
thank you so much !! john
Gbrl Téllez Girón
March 10, 2014 @ 8:47 am
Hey brother, Can you help me out? I had a problem with the wiring of my
P93, and I can´t find any diagram which shows where goes every cable, I’m
dying here!
Brendan Jones
March 15, 2014 @ 10:25 pm
I recently got an Epiphone Wildkat Royale and have been really on the fence
about ripping out all the electronics (just the electronics since tthere
aren’t many direct replacements for the Wildkat line and the ones they do
have are more expensive then what I payed for the guitar) and replacing
them, but I didn’t know if that would even be worth it. After watching
this, I can hear somewhat of a difference between stock and new
electronics, so I’m going to just do it. Thanks for your very well put
together and highly informative videos, John! Keep up the awesome work!
alvaro perez
August 8, 2014 @ 11:51 pm
world of difference.
Musico Pastoral Catolico
October 1, 2014 @ 4:59 am
Hi John, thanks for the video. As with the other videos, I learned more
about guitar electronics. I downloaded most of your videos to have them
available whenever I repair a guitar. I would like to see videos about
guitar and bass setups. I know there are many in youtube but because of
your excellent teaching method I bet yours will be awesome. Thanks again
for your videos and keep up the good work. Yours, Roman
Kate Mamot
March 7, 2015 @ 7:30 am
best video I’ve seen yet super super detailed!!!